From here to post-modernity - summary and playlist for chapter 2 of a New Kind of Christian

Following on from my summay of chapter 1 of a New Kind of Christian, here is my summary of chapter 2:

NB the Mayflower = name of the ship that took pilgrims to the New World

Packing a suitcase for a place none of us has ever been

As Bob Dylan sung ‘the times, they are a changing” and one reason for the changes is that we are leaving modernity behind and journeying into something after that, something post modernity.

We are pilgrims of history, on our own generational mayflower, crossing the ocean of change, leaving behind modern world, one foot already in the new world…

We are not anti modern.  We have been steeped and shaped by modernity, grown through it and now find ourselves growing beyond it.  This change is not universal; many people are content with their world view and a faith that makes sense in that world. We wish such folk well, accepting of them, envious of their certainty even as we embrace our doubts, questions, frustrations arising out of our own search for a faith that fits our changing world and a world that fits our forming faith.

Many of us have no idea why or how got to this place where it felt that we no longer belonged; we woke up one day and we found ourselves with our feet already on this road, the journey already long begun. 

Many of us want to know exactly where we are going and what it will feel like when we get there.  Different is the word most commonly used, different but it will feel righter, will make more sense somehow, match more what we feel now then the place where we left. 

The navigators of the future seem to be in some disagreement as to how to read the map,  no one seems sure whar it is exactly this post-modern world will be called, let alone how long it will take us to get there.  So we try and define these changes more by what it is not rather than what it is.  For each of us how this forming post-modern world differs from the modern one that we are leaving behind is likely to be in some ways different in some ways the same. 

This journey we are making together feels that it is a once and for all voyage and that there is no stopping or going back. We carry a world view within us, that has forever changed for us and we in turn seek a faith that makes sense that will connect and shape this forming world we now inhabit…

For my playlist for Chapter 2, see below:

Bob Dylan - The times they are a changing

U2- Walk On

Comments

[Toni]

Not so much a comment on the post, so much as your poll. I rather see God as both judging righteously, yet compassionate.

;¬)

BTW I found your blog through your post on Smulospace.

[Paul]

Thanks Toni for stopping by and taking time out to leave a comment.

I must get a new poll soon and publish the results. If you are interested it is based on the Bayler report which basically said Americans don't believe in 1 God they believe in 4 different ones (simplified into the categories in the poll).

If you are interested you can read about it in more detail here http://paulmayers.blogs.com/my_weblog/2006/09/which_god_do_yo.html

Personally I agree with you but i guess if I have to pick which 'version' of God I'd go for benevolent - but i guess that is because for me I see love is at the heart of God - but that doesn't stop him being passionate about justice and indeed for me as a result the perfect judge :)

That Mr Smulo, he's a top dude!

[John Smulo]

Mr Mayers,

I found your blog through SmuloSpace too. He should start charging a commission or something :-)

[molly]

Great summation, Paul. Boy, can I ever relate... I was just at a meeting tonight trying to explain exactly what you just summed up...it is really difficult to put into words, especially to an audience that isn't experiencing any sense of change. :)

Who IS this Smulo guy, anyway? He must be absolutely amazing...

*smirk*

[Paul]

Dear John, glad you have made it to a proper site, rather than that dodgy smulo's place -

you may note he advocates getting drunk whilst blogging - with no thought to the consequences of inebriated people trying to pilot the world wide web!

He also threatens people who post with wedgies, which is a most intimidating, as I'm sure any man would ooncur.

He's also not very flatering about utah, colarado or alaska, but then again who is ;)

bonus my place is free too :)

thanks for stopping by and if you'd like to sign for my free PRAY FOR SMULO HE REALLY REALLY NEEDS IT!!! newsletter, then please let me know, it's got lots of juicy gossip, some of it might even be true ;)

Love
Paul

[Paul]

Thanks Molls - it is a difficult to put into words, it's like a feeling in your guts and you can't really get those out now can you? Maybe you should jus ref the men of Isachar who could read the signs of the times... but well done you for trying and keeping chanels of conversation going - how'd the meeting go anywho?

As for Mr Smulo, wasn't he the navigator for Captain Smirk in that spin off series Start Trek? I believe they only made a pilot episode where they circled round Uranus looking for Klingons for about an hr...???

[David]

Hey Paul,
You wanna come to Colorado and give my message this Sunday? Good stuff. Along the same lines of what I'm teaching on.
I like how you said that we are not anti-modern, but have moved past it. I'm gonna steal the 'not anti-modern' part of that and use it. My pastor will be happy to hear it. :-)
I can throw you in there with Tom Sine, Tony Jones, Sally Morganthaler, and NT Wright whom I all borrow from for this week. Good company.
Shalom

[dh]

You say "Different is the word most commonly used, different but it will feel righter, will make more sense somehow, match more what we feel now then the place where we left."

I didn't know Faith came by feeling. Just because it feels "righter" doesn't mean it is. Maybe you shouldn't leave what you left? Maybe the definitive truth is just that definitive?

You also imply in your post that your view is a Faith that grew to this. I think that is a big assumption to make. I feel that what people like you are moved away from subconsciencly is the attitude and heart of people of the modern rather than the theology. I think if you were presented with modern Christianity with a proper heart and attitude you would find that it is much more condusive to post-post modern Christianity than it is post-modern Christianity. So I guess my conclusion is that post-post modern Christianity is a way point for people who are truly Christians. However, many post-modern Christians think they are Christians but aren't and for them it is a way point or "fork in the road" for a personal decision. Just a few cents worth. ;) :) DH

[Paul]

Thanks David, such great company, i am honoured...

Since you didn't charge me last time, i'll waive my fee for you too... :)

[Paul]

DH, I like you very much and appreciate your thoughts and comments. However I think it would be wise to not make assumptions about whether people who are post modern are christians or indeed any persons - it just isn't our call.

Perhaps a better way of describing the modern period would be to call it post-medieval... in that way you would not want to go back to the medieval world, well i wouldn't i'd make a lousy serf, so it is with the change to the post modern (who knows what it will be called in a couple of centuries)...

As for faith well as we know it comes from hearing and hearing from the Logos of God - faith is therefore dynamic and Jesus can lead us into the future as much as he as ever led us into the past. It is not our faith in doctrine or are modern church structures that will save us but our faith in Jesus, so why do we panic so much when parts of the church look to express and bring that faith of Jesus as post modern people to post modern people.

I do like your thoughts about post post modern people and your desire to see a reconciliation of modern and post-modern - i see it more as us having a shared tradition but maybe different ways of engaging and expressing - after all we are not anti-modern but moving beyond the modern with a regard to the traditions and heritage of the deep church...

[dh]

You misunderstood what I was addressing but groups within post post modern Christianity, those who are truly Christians within the group and those who aren't, since only God knows the heart. I was stating, to rephrase, those who are truly Christians within post-post-modern standpoint, it is a way point to greater Faith which is more diffinitive than what they are perceiving at the time. For those who are not Christians but think they are, within this particular group, it leads them to a point or "fork" where a decision must be made. Everyone faces a place where a decision must be made. With my Mom God told her in an audible voice, not from any preacher, if you don't accept Christ now you never will. My Dad said he could feel the pew shake before my Mom went forward to accept Christ as her Savior. For others this "fork" is different but it doesn't change the fact that a response is necessary. I thank God for my Mom in that her life sense that time has never been the same sense.

On traditions, modern is beyond traditions and heritage but a proper understanding of what is truly definitive from God's Word.

On post-modern, I see it as a waypoint toward post-post modern. That when God truly reveals Himself to people the Truth will set them free initially and after Salvation lead them to a greater definitive part of God in His Word. True it is Faith in Jesus that will save but I believe that beyond that point it is for greater Faith and to help people from false doctrine that the Apostle Paul addressed to the churches and for greater Sanctification and Discipleship. I believe strongly that false doctrine keeps people from having a soft heart and from recognizing sin. It gives people a false sense of security and keeps people in their "tresspass of sins". That is not to say that Christ can't save these people because He can but it is much more difficult than just sharing the definitive Truth of God's Word all along.