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19 April 2008

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I'm not completely sure you mean exactly what you write.

In normal parlance (well, from what I know) a stud is a male animal that is used to impregnate a lot of females. In humans it's usually used to refer to a highly promiscuous male.

I quite agree that we've tended to de-sexualise all 'good' bible characters, possibly as a reaction against the way the world pushes everyones sexuality in our faces (double entendre fully intended).

God seems to use patterns over and over again in creation. DNA in all it's various forms. Cells differentiated, yet all basically similar. Jointed legs as a universal means of locomotion among higher animals. The list could go on. Likewise I think He uses aspects of the sexual response (or the human sexual response uses aspects of other responses) throughout our creative beings.

Music has a very clear parallel. When you're playing and moving in the flow of a musical piece, particularly if you're driving it, the effects are very similar to the experience of making love. Maybe this is one of the things that distinguishes those who play with passion from the merely technical.

Worship is another parallel. Have you never felt as worship peaks and troughs the similarity?

What does the bible mean by 'the consummation of the ages'? The wedding-night parallel is unmistakable.

But a part of the problem is that we still have a victorian image of sex. Sex is dirty, sex is porn, sex is sinful.

The world does make sex like that still, and that's part of the draw too (dirty sex is exciting, in its own way). But Christ and Christianity should never be asexual, so much as pure-sexual. Would it seem starnge to pray a prayer of thanksgiving in the middle of making love to ones wife (or husband)?

There is a challenge to live our lives as correctly sexual beings, rather than asexual, rejoicing in the sexual freedom Jesus has brought us. Not freedom to have martini sex, but freedom to enjoy sex in it's right place.

Forgive me if I've rambled. I have a cold, and my head is not too clear.

Now, I'm normally quite unshockable...

However, the idea of Jesus having a penis is one that makes me cringe. Silly really because, well, duh...of course Jesus had a penis.

However, do get what you mean. I think we do sometimes put sexuality into a box. Perhaps because it is so damaging when we abuse our or someone else's sexuality? I don't know.

Now, I'm normally quite unshockable...

However, the idea of Jesus having a penis is one that makes me cringe. Silly really because, well, duh...of course Jesus had a penis.

However, do get what you mean. I think we do sometimes put sexuality into a box. Perhaps because it is so damaging when we abuse our or someone else's sexuality? I don't know.

Thanks Toni - i think i am playing with the idea of sexuality, if you like engaging in a lil hyperbole to contrast my previous experiences with Jesus - especially applying the definition of sexuality that Rob Bell offers in his book.

If that idea of sexuality is about (re)connection, on the physical, mental & spiritual level than Jesus strikes me as very sexual - indeed almost redefing the terms we would use for someone highly sexual - i.e. playing with the term "stud"

I think worship is a great example - music is a great way to feel a shared intimacy and connection amongst a group of people, with ourselves and maybe even with God :).

Rob offers the example of a concert when we are have a shared connection - great music bringing us together and engaging our bodies, spirits and minds.

The other part of the book that has struck me so far is the interplay between angel/animal how we can get stuck at the extremes i.e. it's all dirty or all pure and we don't.

I might write more about that later :)

Thanks Laura Anne, well there aren't many worship songs that celebrate that fact ;)

It's a good point about keeping our sexuality locked down out of fear - i had a conversation with someone who basically said that if they felt sexy then the began not to trust themselves and that made them want to put it back in a box.

I guess that's about finding healthy boundaries rather than living out of fear but that in itself can be a real challenge...

""For many, sexuality is simply what happens between two people involving physical pleasure. But that's only a small percentage of what sexuality is. Our sexuality is all of the ways we strive to reconnect with our world, with each other and with God.""

If what Rob Bell wrote were *true* then I'd agree. I think he's trying to stretch things somewhat, possibly to prove a point, possibly to explore the world inside his own head.

It sounds very plausible in a Freudian kind of way, but really, I don't think that my attempts to connect with the world or with God are particularly an expression of my sexuality. Rather I'd suggest that while my sexuality colours my thinking, it is my mind (soul if you like) and spirit that tries to connect with God and with people in the world. While sexuality is a pattern used in many ways with humans, I don't believe it is the primary pattern used for non-physical relationships. Sexual attraction may drive us to develop relationships (now there's a scary thought for Christians - ever talked to someone because they attracted you? While you were already married.) but it isn't really what makes us connect to people normally. I'd be surprised if Bell could produce substantial evidence to back up his stance on that point.

I actually kinda agree with Laura Anne-- Jesus having a penis totally weirds me out! And I'm glad there aren't too many (are there any?) worship songs celebrating that fact! (I prefer the ken doll image of Jesus' anatomy)
I have a very hard time seeing Jesus a fully human; that, although he was God in human flesh, he also experienced life and relationships and people just like the rest of us. I'm currently reading "Sex God" and Bell's thoughts are pretty interesting, especially when you take out the idea of intercourse as the only definition of sex and put connection in it's place. Jesus was all about love and connection-- which really is what sex is all about.

Thanks toni - i think it's a good point that you make, how far we can take Bell's def of sexuality. In some ways I don't want to completely seperate sex from sexuality on the other hand i can see Bell's point that maybe we can broadend the def beyond just sex.

is sex and sexual attraction the same as sexuality?

Thanks Kate - sorry for all the weirding :)

I don't think there are any legitimate songs celebrating this part of Jesus, altho you can kinda twist a couple of lines in the occassinal song if your mind is warped enuff ;)

I'm glad you're digging the book, i'm enjoying reading it too.

As i said in the comment above, i don't think we should divorce sex from sexuality but does that mean it should be the exclusive definition?

Who are you? a preacher or something? What would you say about brokeness, disappointment, pain, betrayal in God?

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