Church as a 3rd place..?

 

I've written a guest post at Jason Clark's site exploring the idea that the early church was the orginal 3rd space and what implications this may have as we consider church/3rd spaces. 

3rd places are those outside work/home culture i,e. cafes, coffee shops, pubs etc and have a number of characteristics that make them ideal for missional engagement such as their accessibility/openess.

Dr Luke Bretherton argues that the early church provided a 3rd place outside of the household and civic life which was radical in its rebasing of cultural values in that for example women and slaves had equality becasue it was based on status in christ rather than status in household/city life.

My post asks 2 questions that i'd love to hear from you on:

1. if we have church in or as a 3rd place how do we deal with the value of "neutrality" that is a characteristic of a 3rd space? Are 3rd spaces neutral or do they carry consumeristic and competitive values that may be contrary to those of the church?
2. can church be of itself a 3rd place that transcends and transforms our values that are implicit in our entertainment/work/social culture (hmmm does that make church a 4th place?)?

Comments

[John Santic]

Paul, what do you mean by neutrality? Are you defining that term along the lines of what is culturally neutral, like tolerance and relativism when it comes to personal belief? That is definitely a strong thread that holds our canadian public culture together.

If that's the case, then I think the church could be a subversive third place (kind of like a fourth, but not exclusive in form, but inclusive). For I think on the terms of the culture we can engage and on the terms of the gospel we can identify and ferret out through our open third space the ways in which Christ is redeeming the culture.

I do agree that any third space is not neutral but highly informed by the culture, there is no escaping this.

great questions.

[jj]

oh, yes!!!!! i think the church could be a third space or a fourth space. Definitely……Inclusive as well, yes. Inclusive, percussive and extensive (not intensive) and obtrusive..some aspects of the church are cultural in nature and archaic in function but that is not to say they can’t be obsessive or inventive as to cause and remedial in impact…ive seen such churches in my travels to and fro in the earth.

and thanks for the opportunity for me to get that off my chest!!!! i thot you’d never ask……

[Paul]

Thanks John.

By neutrality i am refering to one of the perceived characteristics of a 3rd place (see my post at Jason's for the full list) i.e. that a cafe is a safe place where you don't have to subscribe to any specific philosphy - well apart from liking coffee ;). However a cafe, i would argue, is not a neutral place, it is a space full of values of consumerism - paying for the right to be there, be entertained etc.

I guess i am asking is what are the assumed values of a 3rd place and how can church subvert them? if it can?

[Paul]

thanks JJ, you've clearly been dying to get that off your chest for awhile! ;)

[jj]

yes, i've given it alot of thot

[John Santic]

Thanks for clarifying Paul. I see what you mean by the gathering values of 3rd places and how in fact they are not neutral. If the church chooses to gather through a cafe. then I would think the church community at some point needs to address the exclusivity of the consumer value (paying for the right to be there) to ensure the Gal 3:28 principle allows for all to be part regardless of societal class. Their ability to do this would depend on if the church owns the cafe.

Our church community owns a coffee shop (Ethos) in one of the neighbourhoods we planted in and to address this we have suggested prices for coffee and snacks. Those who cannot pay don't and this helps us make everyone feel welcome. But Ethos in a weird way is not primarily a coffee shop, or a church gathering place and people know that there is something different here than let's say Starbucks. I guess it keeps some away who know the church connection, but it is intriguing to many to see what's going on. It is a third space, but a different space that some might assume.

[fernando]

Paul - I think you are doing a good thing here pushing this issue along. As I've mentioned before, I'm not at all convinced by the idea that third places are neutral. Neutral for whom? My favourite cafe puts some people off because it's too "chi-chi." Some people feel right at home in pubs that would scare the socks off other folk.

Even parks are not totally neutral - there's still a conceptual framework there...

Third places are important, but not because they are neutral. Rather, because they allow a certain kind of socialisation.

One of the things that (most) church thinkers seem to miss is that people don't always (or maybe even often), go to cafes to be part of a "community." For goodness sake - watch people! How many are alone? How many meet "new" people in a cafe? Most folks are there by themselves or with established friends. They go to a cafe to deepen existing networks, or they go there to work/think/relax in a public/private situation. Alone with your thoughts but not feeling alone.

To me that's the real challenge of church-as-a-third-place. Does church help me deepen relationships? Does it give me a place to think? Does it give me a space to unwind and relax?

[Paul]

Thanks John, that is a great example of trying to subvert some of the values of our consumeristic society :)

[Paul]

Thanks F, it's a great point, 3rd places tend to still be very private spaces, where we socialise and gather but can do so in public. And great Qs too, i am wondering how we stop church from being such private spaces cos in that regard i don't think they are often that different in terms of maintaining our space, fave seat, limited participation/engagement etc...

[Kamsin]

I went to a conference once about 3rd spaces in language teaching once. What I mainly remember about 3rd spaces was that they are places beyond traditional control, where people are free to set their own agenda beyond the constraints and demands of more traditional spaces. They are therefore places which are democratic and where creativity breeds. By that definition blogs may be 3rd spaces. I guess most churches have agendas and demands which they place on individuals. 3rd spaces may be the impromptu get togethers outside of the usual church meetings, small groups, bible studies etc. Where there is real opportunity for people to be themselves and for ideas and fellowship to happen beyond any requirements of the church structure.

[Leng]

wanting to start a 3rd space
conversation

at my cafe in houston.

want more detail on your
project.
L