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12 November 2007

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Laura Anne

this is a great post Paul!

It's so true, and it seems to go in my mind completely against so much of the NT. Like Romans 12:2 for example...

so much of the stuff that's not of God gets into society, and the more it's seen as 'cool' or 'normal' the more and more it seems to seep into our lives, our faith...usually in the name of 'being relevant' amongst other reasons we give...

Jonathan Brink

You opened my eyes a little bit more today my friend.

fernando

Peterson is right that out self is under threat. There's a lot of pressure to conform, consume, remake ourselves and dress-up (pretend and pretence). However, He's wrong that the self comes only from within - our identity is a social construct, so we are who we are because of the contexts we are in.

Which raises the question of community (something I've been pondering a lot lately). Shouldn't community really be about having places where our self is not constantly under threat; where we do not have to constantly prove ourselves? Perhaps this si the big challenge for churches where the self is constantly bombarded with messages to confirm our righteousness, doctrinal soundness or annointedness?

It's not just about love and affirmation (although those would be nice from time to time), but also about trust, patience hospitality.

Paul

Thanks Laura, i find it so hard cos even if you take the christian life then all I seem to do is trade in my comparisons, how little i pray, how little i read the bible, how unholy i am - all the time comparing myself and coming off second best. I guess Just Jack could rewrite the song and talk about bookshelves lined with different versions of the bible and notes for prayers never said... ;)

Paul

thanks Jonathan, it's a pleasure to return the favour... :)

Paul

Thanks F, that is a great point, how much of our identity is constructed from without?

I kinda feel that a lot of that social construct at the moment in my context reinforces the message that it is all about self that is important, having it my way if i have the money to spend to get it, living the highlife is living the iLife...

I was listening to the Gods of businsess podcast at speaking of faith radio and the guy they were interviewing who works for UBS was saying that part of the problem with business ethics these days is that there is no communal ethic, no pressure on the outside as we are a transient community with no roots to bind us in - consequently the only pressure on us to do business (or anything else in our lives) ethically is that which comes from within. If i am orientated around myself and getting ahead in my life than perhaps the easiest thing to do is to cut a few corners, stab a few people in the back, reduce people to rivals to be removed or allies to consume.

Or more like me, work is just a job that provides me with the money to live the iLife - i let work consume me, so that i can get the resource to do what i want - work becomes a dead space, a blank in my life, leaves me living for the eveniings and weekends.

So i guess i am a little wary of church buying into the same ethos which says its about me being me, cos that sounds very little different to the market place - but on the other hand i don't want church which treats me as a resource or encourages me to view people in that same way - as statistics, or a means to grow the kingdom etc...

I think church has to be a space where my self is challenged, where i can get a kick of the backside and i do things for others not for the sake of the job but cos that brings inconvenience into my life and helps me work and play with people. I appreciate that i can be honest with people about how self obsessed i am and that they can be gentle in reminding me that i am not the centre of the universe and that in turn they can invite me to care for them, learn how to give rather than just take all the time...

Hmmm that sounded a bit ranting, give me a reality check please, what do you think?

fernando

Rant? No. But, I think we might be having a creative and purposeful disagreement.

I recall towards the end of my time in India, chatting to a visiting preacher who felt it was his calling to "shake people up" who were complacent (as he imagined it) in their faith. Truth be told, I found his sermon borderline abusive, largely because for anyone trying to be an intentional Christian in India (and that little ex-pat church had a good share of people in that boat), ordinary life doesn't just shake you up, it often beats you up.

There's surely a tension at work here because, as you point out, life can often become self-obsessed and solipsistic (me begets me). On the other hand, when we genuinely engage with the world in faithful ways, that can be draining and it's times like that we do need sanctuary.

I"m as loathe to endorse country club Christianity as anyone. However, i do feel that if we are to encourage people to stay still for long enough to grow roots and let those roots feed an ethical sense, then we need to make community "grippy." Doing that must demand acceptance.

The way it looks to me there is a real cross-contextual dilemma here. Our churches can sometimes do such a good job of being "open" that we demand very little of people who worship with us. But, in the same move we manage to make it very hard for people to feel like they really belong.

Now I'm ranting...

Paul

Thanks F, yes i think you are right about making community grippy and part of that has to be acceptance - if we cannot be honest about who we are and where then why bother?

It's tricky cos I can often collapse my faith in my and Jesus, it is a lot harder to practice faith with other people around that offer challenge as well as acceptance - maybe that is where confession comes into play, we here each other not to judge but to pass on love, encouragement and support?

Maybe we need the environment of the AA meeting - where we are open, honest but also know that people are watching out for us and confronting us because they want to help us and also want to be confronted by us in return - that kind of honesty, grip and challenge?

What do you think?

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