How our negative church experiences could help others...

Have you had a hard time as a result of church - ok you can all put your hands down, thank you.  All joking aside church, like anything else, can cause us devasting amounts of pain.  The hopeful news is that your pain is not in vain and that together we can learn so that maybe some one else does not get hurt.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind helping Barb out with the research survey that she is doing.  Barb writes...

"I could use your help with my personal research.  I would like you to fill out my questionnaire.

This is the subject criteria that I am looking for:  Believers who have had a negative church experience--primarily with authoritarian and controlling church leadership and who no longer are interested in those groups because they have had a disillusioning church experience with them.  Believers, eventually, recognize and process their grief and move on from their initial harmful experience of disappointment and disillusionment.  Where have you come from in the “process” and where are you at now?  I am interested in “how” believers have processed and recovered from a devastating experience in a local church setting to a reasonable state or condition of spiritual harmony in their lives.  How have you processed what has happened to you since your muddy tunnel experience?  What has helped you go forward in Christ since that time?
 
The information given by those participating will be kept confidential.  It will be used for my purposes of gathering and assessing information in order to compare it with the literature which I have been reading on related topics.  If ever needed, I may ask for  permission to quote someone.   

Thank you for your interest and participation in my personal research.  I appreciate the time and effort that it takes to further consider these issues in your own life.  I realize that the issues and the questionnaire bring up old memories and maybe some painful experiences.  I pray that your reflection on this topic will give you further insights into your own personal journey with Christ as well as confirm that this issue is, in fact, a problem in the church today and that it needs to be addressed.
 
Thank you for your courage and prayerful input."

For any questions and to request a questionaire please email Barb

Comments

[seekingsomething]

Hello Paul,

This is an interesting post and a really interesting idea for research, but one which raises questions for me that I would prefer to ask here (because I kind of feel I 'know' you a bit from your blog) than via email to the researcher (who I don't yet 'know' at all) - I hope that's OK? :)

First off, if at all possible, it would be really helpful to know more about Barb and the context in which she is doing this research, and also where the results will eventually be disseminated. Does Barb have any formal research training/skills and is she accountable to anyone or any institution/structure in order to ensure she gets support and deals with the information appropriately. Importantly, I'd like to know what 'models' if any, Barb has been considering as a framewoork in which to understand what happens to someone who has a bad Church experience. She talks about assessing the information she receives and comparing it against the literature.. and she talks about seeking to 'confirm that there is a problem in the church today and that it needs to be addressed'. What is that literature and what exactly are Barb's hypotheses and proposed research methods?

I'm asking all this because I'm actually very excited about the prospect of a Christian undertaking research to help the Church understand and improve the ways in which it works with members, but I'd just need a little more information before I would want to dig up old and painful issues again.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Barb - I don't know her obviously - the kinds of questions I have are entirely a consequence of my own experiences!! But I think it may be a helpful point to make, that one of the consequences for me, of having had a difficult church experience and in many ways still being 'mid-process' in dealing with it, is that I am still wary of giving control away again ...even to a researcher... and it would require a leap of faith that I can't yet make to take part in a research study that I don't fully understand. ;)

I hope you don't mind me saying this; it's just that I suspect that there may be others like me who may also need a bit more information before being able to decide whether to participate in this.

Thanks

ss

[Helen]

Those were my first questions too, ss - who is Barb? Why is she collecting this? What is she going to do with it? How will this make the world a better place? Where will our feedback end up? Is she getting paid for it and if so will we get paid too?

I'm just asking ;-)

[Paul]

Thanks Helen and Seeking Something - all pefectly reasonable questions. I've asked Barb to leave a comment here with some background, her institution she's studying at and the name of her supervisor. Hopefully the comment will help you understand more of why Barb is doing this research and that it is part of academic rather than ad hoc process...

[Paul]

Ok Barb has got back to me via email and she is more than happy to answer any other Qs at the address above...

In terms on institute Barb is taking her course at ACTS seminary - see here for details http://www.acts.twu.ca/

Barb's supervisor is Dr Larry Perkins

Barb writes in response to the comments...

"Hi SS, Helen and All.

I appreciate your quick and interested response and understand your concerns.

So here is a brief overview of Barb’s story. I hope this answers some of your questions. BTW Greetings from Canada!

In the early 90’s our family moved near a Christian University which had a seminary. Barb drove her kids to a Chrn school and headed off for classes at the seminary, which was a unique and stimulating opportunity to learn and grow in Christ and in God’s Word. Later our kids entered and graduated from the Univ. Barb got two degrees while at the seminary.

In 2003 Barb had an opportunity to be in the first group to begin the new Doctor of Ministry degree program being offered. My pals had their dissertation topics already picked. I didn’t have a research topic for a long while. I just kept plodding.

Last year our church, where we were actively involved for 16 years, came to a difficult point. This is where we, as a family, experienced our own muddy tunnel negative church experience, along with a number of dedicated church pals. In my grief and disillusionment with my local church I began to search for answers in order to better understand what factors had arisen to create such a circumstance. I began to read books, websites and blogs. One of the topics which kept coming up was spiritual abuse and authoritarian leadership practices. My dissertation research topic then began to rapidly take shape.

I have read and heard a sampling of the pain that is out there in the Body of Christ. There are many factors and it is a complex issue. My present interest is in “how” people have processed their grief and have come to a reasonable point of spiritual harmony in their walk with Christ after a devastating church experience.

Now that my topic has been approved by the seminary, I am in the process of getting further approval from the ethics dept. of the institution.

This will seek to ensure my integrity in the process, confidentiality, and safeguards for my focus group. My main focus group will be people from my area--that I know, or who have been referred to me. My interest is also in hearing the stories of others from various locations. This will reinforce the fact that the need is out there as well as confirm how many others have processed their debilitating and negative church experiences.

It is also an area of risk and trust for me--that the info given is accurate and not a fabricated story. No one enjoys being scammed. Most of us have tasted of that one. If some want to wait until I have approval from the ethics dept. that’s fine too. It is up to you. Anything directly used by me for my dissertation will require a consent form to be signed by participants and myself. Paul and others have been kind enough to help get things started out in the blogosphere. I am excited to have a wider group of people to learn from.

My dissertation topic is part of the degree requirement of the institution. Nevertheless, this topic has become more than just a degree getting process. I have come to see that that Christ, the Head of the Church, has a desire here as well. He continues to carefully regard the concerns of his people. I am interested in participating in hearing God’s heart through the voice of His people.

The goal of this research is not to open old wounds, but to approach healing together as a concerned and compassionate group of care’ers in the Body of Christ. Elizabeth O’Connor has stated that: “The pain that cripples is the pain that is borne alone--never put into words. This is the pain that becomes a pool of tears hidden away inside, keeping us from connecting in any important way with others.”

She goes on to note that: “healing is not going to happen in any important way as long as the pain in us and around us goes unacknowledged and unexplored. A wailing wall is never the end of it. It is always the beginning. . . . We discover around these wailing walls that our pain is related to what we are to do in life. Pain gives us a vision of God's new world. Wrapped up in our anguish is a work that will heal us and heal the society.”

I agree and believe that we need community to recognize that these situations exist, and then we need to grieve together and to heal together. The understanding gained through grief and healing ought to help many in the Family to minister effectively to others in their difficult season--because so many have ‘been there’ too.

To date I don’t know of a benefactor to support my research. No one gets paid in this. J It is just me stepping out and risking with Christ. It is a labor of love and a service before Christ for all who desire to participate. So far, for me, it has been a rich and growing experience in Him!

So there’s an insight into Barb and her intentions. I hope that I have answered your main questions. Feedback welcome.

Learning to serve, through Christ, your pal Barb."

[Helen]

I appreciate Barb sharing more about her research.

I probably should have said at the outset: I'm not interested in being a research project. And I don't need help in healing beyond the help I already have.

Barb I hope you find people happy to participate so you can complete your dissertation project.

[seekingsomething]

I really appreciate this additional information too.

I'm going to be bold and say that, although this is very interesting and the intentions seem to be very noble, my feedback is that I feel quite strongly that research with human participants should not begin until ethical approval has been gained. That process in itself is intended to help bring clarity and sharpening and safety into the research process and I struggle with this aspect of your project. It may well be that this is because regulations vary between the UK and Canada, but over here a University would jeopardise it's rights to hold research degree-awarding powers if it allowed students to begin research projects of this nature before obtaining clearance from the relevant ethics committees.

All the same, I am grateful for your full and helpful explanation of your intentions and I wish you well in your studies, Barb.

ss

[Paul]

lol helen, a research project in being you heh - that sounds one fun study altho tricky unless you co-operate ;)

[Paul]

ss - thank you for being bold and expressing your feelings :)

[Helen]

Thanks Paul!

I do hope I'm interesting :) but I don't have time to be in a research project.

[Paul]

CLARIFICATION FROM BARB....

Hi All,

This post was preliminary reconnaissance in the blogosphere in checking out the interest in this topic.
To clarify, those who are interested can email me their name and email address at: churchexitersq@telus.net.

I will then forward the consent forms from the ethics dept. of the institution together with the questionnaire.
The form can be signed and the questionnaire filled out and returned to me.

This will ensure confidentiality of the participants and that their real names will not be included in any written work.

It is for those who are interested in participating in sharing about this vital topic. It is an opportunity for people to share their stories and have a voice. I invite participation and will read with interest and sensitivity.

Thanks again, Barb

[Helen]

Barb, with all due respect, I don't think this is a particularly helpful format for people who need to heal from being hurt in churches.

I think they need to be with people in person who affirm them and show them grace and love. And at the same time encourage them to let go of anger and bitterness that would hold them back in life.

Barb why don't you post here yourself and talk to us? Why is Paul posting your comments for you?

Paul why is that?

[Paul]

Helen - Barb has tried to post comments here but has not been able too. I therefore offered to post her comments which she has emailed to me on her behalf, in order to respond to the questions/thoughts raised.

Whilst I appreciate that you may not find this the most helpful way of doing it others may well do. I appreciate your thoughts but you have already indicated that you are not interested in taking part. Ways that may be helpful need a formal process of evidence/capture which in part is what is being researched.

I therefore don't think this is meant as a process of healing but of learning. I think that this research will enable the capture of learning for people to grow through the experience that the wider community can benefit from then I think it is a good thing.

[seekingsomething]

To be fair though, Paul, Barb did say above: "feedback welcome" and presumably that includes constructive criticism as well as positive feedback? ;)

Although you say that you think that this research is primarily intended to support learning than healing, Barb's text above does seem to refer to both. I may well have misunderstood but, particularly her quotes from Elizabeth O'Connor seem to imply that she feels that putting this particular grief into words will be helpful for participants, as well as helpful to the world at large through Barb's study.

This is where my concerns about ethics come in. It is hard to imagine that recounting these experiences will have a NIL effect on the participants at an emotional level. In some cases, it seems likely that it may help, and indeed, Barb says she prays that "that your reflection on this topic will give you further insights into your own personal journey with Christ as well as confirm that this issue is, in fact, a problem in the church today and that it needs to be addressed".

But what if the participants' reflection in some cases just serves to stir up the pain further? What safeguards does Barb have in place, and what resources can she offer to participants who may need to de-brief from the situation?

I don't think it is sufficient to overlook those issues on the grounds that this is "preliminary reconnaissance in the blogosphere in checking out the interest in this topic". Arguably, given the distance between Barb and her participants, she needs to take even more care to ensure the well-being of those who participate by email than she does for those from her local community, because any distress caused by the 'distant participants'in this study will not be easily apparent to her. The only personal information she will have is the name, city, church and email address of each participant. And all they have from Barb is a special email address set up to receive questionnaires. Given that electronic communications are notoriously unreliable (and Barb's difficulties in posting here being a case in point), there is just too much for me that seems insubstantial about the planning of this project.

My understanding of the research literature on 'grief' is that grief is thought by experts to be not so much a process with a beginning, middle and end, but as a kind of cycle or spiral, where a grieving person may come through phases of resolving areas of pain and moving on, but may also find themselves at various times re-visiting painful aspects of their grief (issues that they might have thought they ha done with may re=-surface, triggered by different life events).

With that perspective in mind, I think that Barb needs to take care not to make assumptions that there is a crowd of folk out there all recovered and on the other side, able to participate in this with no adverse consequences - as she says herself, this is complex stuff.

Personally, I think that an ethics committee would ask these sorts of questions and that's why I would have preferred that Barb got this aspect of the project cleared BEFORE beginning her reconnaisance exercise. It's not that I am not interested or don't believe the study to be of value, but I do feel strongly that these exercises can POTENTIALLY be harmful, and for that reason I think it's worth offering feedback to this effect.

ss

[seekingsomething]

PS, Sorry, the capitals look like shouting, which isn't intended. I used them because I couldn't ork out how to get italics :)

[Paul]

thanks ss.

I think my point to helen is merely that no one has to get involved unless they want to. As you point out it might throw up more difficulties for some people and their support network considerations should be a factor in folk thinking about taking part.

I suppose i personally view it as making an decision about whether one can cope taking part in answering the Qs. If not don't do them or stop doing them.

But it's good to have these issues teased out just to make it extra clear from different perspectives/personalities.

[seekingsomething]

Sorry to add to my 'essay' above but I was just re-reading and asking myself if I am being fair to Barb and why exactly I am worried, and in order to try to be more precise can I just add this:

In response to my ethics questions, Barb said in her clarification above: "It is also an area of risk and trust for me--that the info given is accurate and not a fabricated story. No one enjoys being scammed. Most of us have tasted of that one."

This is the bit that most concerned me. Although I can understand that there is risk involved for Barb too, I don't think it is relevant to the questions I asked. Issues around participant authenticity are part of the deal for researchers - she needs to take advice from her supervisor on how to manage this. She can't possibly expect participants to respond on a quid pro quo basis.

So I am bothered that she went on to say: "If some want to wait until I have approval from the ethics dept. that’s fine too. It is up to you."

"No, no, no" are the words on my lips each time I've re-read that. It is a key responsibility of the researcher to make every effort to safeguard her participants' well-being. Every time.

[Helen]

Paul wrote: "Helen - Barb has tried to post comments here but has not been able too. I therefore offered to post her comments which she has emailed to me on her behalf, in order to respond to the questions/thoughts raised."

I believe you - it does seem strange we can comment and she can't, but - whatever. Maybe she's on some sort of school computer system with limitations I don't have.

Paul wrote: "Whilst I appreciate that you may not find this the most helpful way of doing it others may well do. I appreciate your thoughts but you have already indicated that you are not interested in taking part."

True, but does that mean I can't discuss it?

Paul wrote: "Ways that may be helpful need a formal process of evidence/capture which in part is what is being researched."

Yes - I'm confused about whether Barb is researching past methods that worked, or exploring whether something works now. The latter seems definitely in danger of messing with hurt peoples' psyches.

Paul wrote: "I therefore don't think this is meant as a process of healing but of learning."

Paul I was basing my comment about healing on this statement of Barb's: "The goal of this research is not to open old wounds, but to approach healing together as a concerned and compassionate group of care’ers in the Body of Christ."

Maybe I'm wrong but to me that sounded like healing to me.

Paul wrote "I think that this research will enable the capture of learning for people to grow through the experience that the wider community can benefit from then I think it is a good thing."

I'd like to know more about how what Barb is doing will reach the wider community. My impression is that no-one ever sees most PhD research except the person who writes it and those who grade it.

I do agree in principle that sharing what has worked with others is a good thing.

If Barb is planning to try things out on currently hurt people then I would be concerned about that given that as best I can tell she's not a qualified mental health practitioner. I care about this because my own negative experiences have largely been inflicted by people who assume they are qualified to venture into areas they demonstrably are not qualified to go.

Anyway ss probably said most of this better than me :)

[Paul]

Thanks ss, i'm glad you've been able to identify what bugged you, maybe this whole talking/writing thing can be helpful to work things out ;)

Seriously, it is a great point, thank you

[Paul]

Thanks Helen, it's good to have your pov.

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