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24 April 2007

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Comments

Bill Kinnon

Well said, Paul.

sonja

amen, brother!

Lyn

Excellent - well put!

Paul

Thanks Bill, what have you started ;)

Paul

Thanks sonja and a hearty amen too :)

Paul

thanks lyn, i'm sure it's even better now i've proof read it - i'm the worlds worst self editor ;)

John Smulo

Like it. Like it a lot.

glenn

An inspiring, honest and beautiful piece of writing, Paul!

Rupert Ward

Good stuff Paul. I wondered initially if you were going to call it the people formally known as Christians. In many respects I find the word Christian so inadequate ... it can mean anything from fundamentalist to church goer, to "I am not a Jew, Muslim, Hindu ...".

Personally i have been using the phrase "someone who follows Jesus" to describe myself more than Christian.

I also wonder if the picture is a bleak as you sometimes suggest in the piece? What you describe is present for sure; but i also think that many Christians (there you go, i am using the word after all) who aren't actually more forgiving, loving, caring, gracious, committed, giving, peaceful, faithful, loyal, caring, concerned than we often think.

There is so much hatred, unforgiveness, selfishness, bitterness, anger, miserly, consumerist, controlling, vitriolic people out there, the church can look beautiful in comparison. I know you aren't denying that ... just wondering about the balance, i guess, of brokenness AND wholeness in the church?

Paul

Thanks John, sorry no cute puppy dogs though :)

Paul

Thanks Glenn

Paul

Thanks Rupert - yes the title of what we call ourselves was a challenge so i tried to throw in some alts, whatever label we want to apply to ourselves can be helpful then again it can just reinforce that we are different from them lot. I wanted to try and write about christians in all their fun and wonderful forms, rather than necessarily trying to identify a spectrum of belief.

Personally, i think the phrase someone who follow's Jesus is great one - maybe instead of christians we could call ourselves Jesusinians??? :)

I absolutely agree with you Rupert, i probably did vear to the bleak a bit - but in part that is cos i wanted to get away from idealism and acknowledge that the church is a flawed bunny with flawed people. These people often are incredibly loving, generous, kind, caring but we also do muck things up too. I think we need to be real and say yes we can be crap too each other and that is why we are following Jesus in the first place cos we recognise we need help, but yes you are right again, we also reconginse that we need to help those around us too.

Of course a lot of the stats between christians and non christians in terms of divorce, abusive homes etc are pretty much the same - so maybe we are on a journey of recovery rather than having arrived at that means in many ways we are changing and in many ways we have yet to be changed.

What do you think?

Kamsin

Great post Paul! I actually saw it as being quite positive in overall message. You haven't tried to sugar coat things and have tried to be realistic, and I can get quite annoyed with Christians who try to paint this wonderful rosy picture of a life lived as a Christian, when the reality doesn't always match up, because we do mess up and hurt one another in the process. But I think you offer hope, and I found the piece to be encouraging.

Rupert Ward

I'm up for being called a Jesusinian ... it could catch on Paul.

I have heard that statistics say Christians and non-Christians aren't that different is divorce etc, but never quite sure what to make of them. Where are these statistics? Has someone done some real research? Is that more in the US where there is higher proportion of church going?

In our church i don't think we do too bad in terms of divorce. In the last 20 years, i can only think of 3 couples who have divorced and 1 who is separated. Not perfect, but better than national average by a long way.

I think it good that we aren't claiming perfection (and certainly not "come to Jesus and all your problems will be solved!") but we also offer something to society (i think) that is more wholesome and healthy than much of what goes on around us.

I suppose i am keen on this POV as i really thinking two questions:

1. what makes us different to people who aren't following Jesus?

2. what do we have to offer society?

So lets not hype that as many / I have done ... but also lets not be too down on ourselves.

hephzibah

Wow! and Thank you.

Paul

Great thoughts Rupert - i'll post your Qs as a post and see if other folk might want to comment?

Paul

Thanks Kamsin, glad that you found it realistic but hopeful.

Paul

thanks hephzibah

John W Frye

Hi, Paul.
I copied your post into JESUS THE RADICAL PASTOR. I appreciate the honesty and thoroughness of your observations. Thanks so much.
God bless!

Paul

Thanks John

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